Manager/Coach Des Buckingham

My position is much unchanged, but I might’ve gone a bit early with my gushing compliments after Peterborough which is starting to age worse by the game, the more it looks like Peterborough were allowing us to use them as a rag doll.

For clarity, missing the top 6 is failure, should that be the end result. It would’ve been failure for Manning and it should be seen the same for Des. But a style of play is at least now showing on a consistent basis and we’re having the better of play a lot of the time so I’ve seen enough to think the potential is worth exploring next season. It’s clear that we haven’t got a full compliment of options for this system that might have otherwise allowed us to do better.

Nonetheless, Des seems to be coming up short in the tactical battles and hopefully can reflect in the summer as similar things are tripping him up. He wins on aesthetics quite often and when it happens for us we look a force of nature but has now twice in a week lost on practicality (what some might call boring anti-football) when it mattered most. If he can balance the two things then we’re on to a winner but it looks a big if given it takes him 30+ games to develop us in to what essentially we watched under Robinson for seasons and proved not good enough over and over. It does feel like that level of pragmatism that just gets the job done at times (AKA a real winners mentality, see Portsmouth) instilled by Manning has been kicked out of them and we’re more like a youth team now - ‘play for fun boys’. It needs to get serious sooner or later. He has my full support in to next season but the pressure for a fast start is very much already there.
 
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chromeyellow said:
Port Vale successfully kicked Manning’s team and won. Sparky was sent off.

(Neither Port Vale nor Evans's Stevenage were anywhere near as downright nasty as Lincoln. one of the most cynical and dirty anti-football sides I've seen for many a year)
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Yes I was saying last night that Stevenage did the tough, defensive, slightly shithousy thing but largely within the rules and didn’t P**s me off anything like as much as Lincoln, who basically cheated. Refs need to get more of a grip on teams like that.
 
Osei Yaw said:
Out of interest, if you were in charge, what would you do with Buckingham? Would you back him, or sack him?
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Get the feeling you're trying to call me out somehow, but I'll answer as though it were asked at face value anyhow...

First off, I'd only have recruited Buckingham if he was the stand-out candidate who offered the best chance of continuing on the excellent start to the season. So if I'd been in charge all that time, I'd hold him to those standards, and presumably would be very miffed at why he had not fulfilled what he had promised.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend I took over tomorrow, and so had had no say in his recruitment, and had to make a call as to what to do going forward...

I would need to speak to him. I would want some reassurance from the manager that he knows what he is doing. That he knows why we are so flaky. Why we've taken just 3 points from 18 available in six home games against Reading, Orient, Lincoln, Northampton, Barnsley and Stevenage in the last 3 months.

Is he learning? Does he know why we didn't win on Tuesday? Does he know why we didnt win last night? What does he propose to do to remedy it? And why on earth didn't he do that sooner?

I would need to get a feeling from the man that he has a grip on things and they can and will improve. I'm not seeing enough of that as a supporter.

If I were in charge I'd be asking pertinent questions before making any decisions.

Unfortunately, I suspect none are being asked. And the same lackadaisical relationship between senior club leadership and team manager that allowed KR to remain as long as he did, and has apparently prevented Buckingham from being given the support he needs, is now effectively allowing him to meander along into next season with negligible signs of improvement.

As a supporter, we're not party to any more insight than what we watch on a matchday. And so we have to hope that Buckingham does have those answers. At least until such point as it's unequivocal that he does not.

We're not quite there yet.
 
SirAndyOfCrosby said:
Get the feeling you're trying to call me out somehow, but I'll answer as though it were asked at face value anyhow...

First off, I'd only have recruited Buckingham if he was the stand-out candidate who offered the best chance of continuing on the excellent start to the season. So if I'd been in charge all that time, I'd hold him to those standards, and presumably would be very miffed at why he had not fulfilled what he had promised.

But, for the sake of argument, let's pretend I took over tomorrow, and so had had no say in his recruitment, and had to make a call as to what to do going forward...

I would need to speak to him. I would want some reassurance from the manager that he knows what he is doing. That he knows why we are so flaky. Why we've taken just 3 points from 18 available in six home games against Reading, Orient, Lincoln, Northampton, Barnsley and Stevenage in the last 3 months.

Is he learning? Does he know why we didn't win on Tuesday? Does he know why we didnt win last night? What does he propose to do to remedy it? And why on earth didn't he do that sooner?

I would need to get a feeling from the man that he has a grip on things and they can and will improve. I'm not seeing enough of that as a supporter.

If I were in charge I'd be asking pertinent questions before making any decisions.

Unfortunately, I suspect none are being asked. And the same lackadaisical relationship between senior club leadership and team manager that allowed KR to remain as long as he did, and has apparently prevented Buckingham from being given the support he needs, is now effectively allowing him to meander along into next season with negligible signs of improvement.

As a supporter, we're not party to any more insight than what we watch on a matchday. And so we have to hope that Buckingham does have those answers. At least until such point as it's unequivocal that he does not.

We're not quite there yet.
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I think that’s well put. Is he building something or just randomly floundering around? I suspect it’s a bit of both. I don’t think he deserves to be sacked now but I hope the club are asking your questions, because I don’t want him recruiting a new team then being fired after a hopeless start.
 
SirAndyOfCrosby said:
Why we've taken just 3 points from 18 available in six home games against Reading, Orient, Lincoln, Northampton, Barnsley and Stevenage in the last 3 months.
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Strange list- that's not all the home games we've played in the last three months. If you omit some of the games when we do well then the stats will look a whole lot worse
 
chromeyellow said:
Strange list- that's not all the home games we've played in the last three months. If you omit some of the games when we do well then the stats will look a whole lot worse
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You're a creepy little f*cker aren't you?

The salient point, that would be appreciated by any genuine Oxford fan (as opposed to some creepy f*cker who is only here to promote some myopic view of McGuane, Murphy and Buckingham) is that we've consistently dropped points at home that we shouldn't have.

I've given you plenty of 'complete' stats. You don't engage with those do you? But of course, you're not here as a genuine supporter, are you?
 
SirAndyOfCrosby said:
You're a creepy little f*cker aren't you?

The salient point, that would be appreciated by any genuine Oxford fan (as opposed to some creepy f*cker who is only here to promote some myopic view of McGuane, Murphy and Buckingham) is that we've consistently dropped points at home that we shouldn't have.

I've given you plenty of 'complete' stats. You don't engage with those do you? But of course, you're not here as a genuine supporter, are you?
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What a nice fellow you must be!

If you really want to talk about how we've "consistently"dropped points at home then use all the stats instead of cherry picking the ones that are convenient.

I am proud to say I have consistently defended Murphy when some "supporters" abused him. I said that we had no idea what was happening under Robinson and that Robinson's comments couldn't be taken as reliable given what he had done with other players.

I also said Murphy couldn't be blamed for not being selected by Liam Manning.

I think, since he has been selected on balance he has been an excellent member of the squad. Do you disagree?

I suggest you put the bottle away. take a couple of aspirin and hit the sack.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/topics/ztwx4j6
You might want to look at this revision session on stats from BBC Bitesize tomorrow.
 
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SirAndyOfCrosby said:
You're a creepy little f*cker aren't you?

The salient point, that would be appreciated by any genuine Oxford fan (as opposed to some creepy f*cker who is only here to promote some myopic view of McGuane, Murphy and Buckingham) is that we've consistently dropped points at home that we shouldn't have.

I've given you plenty of 'complete' stats. You don't engage with those do you? But of course, you're not here as a genuine supporter, are you?
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Unnecessary
 
werthersoriginal said:
I think that’s well put. Is he building something or just randomly floundering around? I suspect it’s a bit of both. I don’t think he deserves to be sacked now but I hope the club are asking your questions, because I don’t want him recruiting a new team then being fired after a hopeless start.
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I suspect it’s the latter.

We will be a mid-table side under him next year.
 
Really think that if the recruitment is right and we have more than one CF ,younger midfield options, a physical presence in the midfield,Solid GK as well as a few other changes we will be in for a great season.
Not as far away as some love / enjoy making out , real signs of improvement and the team going in the right direction.
This season isn't over yet either ..COYY
 
Thomas/Brock/Jones said:
Really think that if the recruitment is right and we have more than one CF ,younger midfield options, a physical presence in the midfield,Solid GK as well as a few other changes we will be in for a great season.
Not as far away as some love / enjoy making out , real signs of improvement and the team going in the right direction.
This season isn't over yet either ..COYY
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The depth in available 1st team players has killed us at the wrong times - a trueism in footballing
terms for sure - but none so more than the ultimate literal sacrifice made by the ancient players of ball games 💀
 
What we absolutely need from the manager and recruitment team, is the ability and knowhow to recruit the right players, who themselves then have the ability and knowhow on the pitch to get us out of League One and be capable of sustaining us in the Champ.

By that I mean some flair players and some capable of doing the physical, dirty and dark arts side of things. We always seem to recruit players who on their day are pretty to watch but are flimsy when any sort of robustness from the opposition stands in the way. We’ve simply got to create a squad that can handle different types of opponents home and away, in varying match day conditions across 46 games, and not be frightened to change a winning team and our tactics and style if the next opponents are a totally different kettle of fish to those we’ve just beaten.

So are Des and the coaching staff and the recruitment team on board and able to realise this? It’s questionable given the stats from matches against teams in the top half of the table and against teams who simply try, and know, how to stop us from playing in the only way we are able to with the squad of players we have.

I don’t have the stats but even under the previous manager when we were doing ok I never ever felt confident going into games against the better sides in the league (eg top 6-8) or the ones that are very physical and know how to play dirty. I don’t believe our record against them even then was anything special. We’ve got to be far more savvy in terms of the players we recruit and the tactics we deploy on different match days against varying opponents, and have the ability to change our approach in games too.

A very interesting post above from @SirAndyOfCrosby about the questions that those running the club should be asking of Des, but not only the manager but the recruitment and coaching staff too. The answers to those questions should give a much better indication of whether we really have the right people to be able to get us to the next level and stay there. The bigger problem is do those running the club have the understanding to actually be asking those questions and know what the right answers should be?
 
I generally have stayed away from this ‘debate’. To be honest I struggle with the vitriol heaped on Des, some of which I think I understand. Dropping five points from our last two home games is poor by any standard (and probably very costly). However, I hope we persevere with him for a couple of reasons.
His record is mixed, for me. The issue of recruiting is huge, playing without a clear no 9 for well over a year now is ludicrous, something that DB has inherited to a large extent. He needs to sit down with the Recruitment team and agree on the balance on the squad for next season, and clear agreed targets. No repeat of Perkins/ Burey. For me, Manning did a solid job before he decided to cash in. Our league position was strong, and DB has failed overall to build from this. People can (do) debate this endlessly; the loss of back room staff, Beadle moving, Mills’ injury, injuries to Leigh, Browne(unfortunately not a surprise), Edwards and the failed gamble of his signing and the struggle that Moore has this year with staying fit. I remain of the view that three windows would be necessary to recover post Robinson and Des has had some time now to make the necessary choices to take the squad forward, including who will need to move on. DB has credit in the bank from the quick signing of Bennett and the loan for G O’D who deserved a decent opportunity away from here.
A second reason for siding with DB is his affiliation for and ‘understanding’ of our Club. The Club is owned by, for me, a faceless entity from a distance and fronted by people who are stuck by their supporter/customer position. While I understand a distinction between a Football Club/ business organisation this confusion is very evident to those who are stuck with and experience the consequences. This affiliation, by itself, is not a good enough reason to support DB in his current position; this has to be earned. Whatever happens at Exeter, I want DB to continue to be given the opportunity to take us forward.
 
Chippy said:
What we absolutely need from the manager and recruitment team, is the ability and knowhow to recruit the right players, who themselves then have the ability and knowhow on the pitch to get us out of League One and be capable of sustaining us in the Champ.

By that I mean some flair players and some capable of doing the physical, dirty and dark arts side of things. We always seem to recruit players who on their day are pretty to watch but are flimsy when any sort of robustness from the opposition stands in the way. We’ve simply got to create a squad that can handle different types of opponents home and away, in varying match day conditions across 46 games, and not be frightened to change a winning team and our tactics and style if the next opponents are a totally different kettle of fish to those we’ve just beaten.

So are Des and the coaching staff and the recruitment team on board and able to realise this? It’s questionable given the stats from matches against teams in the top half of the table and against teams who simply try, and know, how to stop us from playing in the only way we are able to with the squad of players we have.

I don’t have the stats but even under the previous manager when we were doing ok I never ever felt confident going into games against the better sides in the league (eg top 6-8) or the ones that are very physical and know how to play dirty. I don’t believe our record against them even then was anything special. We’ve got to be far more savvy in terms of the players we recruit and the tactics we deploy on different match days against varying opponents, and have the ability to change our approach in games too.

A very interesting post above from @SirAndyOfCrosby about the questions that those running the club should be asking of Des, but not only the manager but the recruitment and coaching staff too. The answers to those questions should give a much better indication of whether we really have the right people to be able to get us to the next level and stay there. The bigger problem is do those running the club have the understanding to actually be asking those questions and know what the right answers should be?
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Absolutely spot on Chippy, it's going to take a change in the club's recruitment policy to get the right caliber of player through the door.
We have a belief as a fan base that we should have an attacking free flowing way of playing.
In an ideal world we could do that over 46 games.
It's not going to happen in a long hard league 1 season.
Your analysis is correct that we need those more robust and physical players that will allow us to mix it with the more physical sides.
Also as you stated, tactics and set up will need to change game to game.
I believe to have any chance of promotion from this league, the recruitment in the summer will be crucial in obtaining the right type of players .
 
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