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[Wandering Yellow]

711 across the channel this morning.

The most stupid thing about it, is it would be so preventable. Our lack of common sense on this for years has created this dangerous situation.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

What you post on other threads is hardly relevant to this one, so the comment is not strange in the least. You both come across as paranoid and scared and make the same points about the nasty men coming across the channel to ruin our lives and our country.

And I do not think you will find ANYONE on this thread (the one about immigration) who would actually disagree with you that we need to control numbers AND know who is coming here AND only accept people who will either contribute (be that through education or directly into work) OR have a genuine case to ask for asylum because they are fleeing danger and oppression.

The difference of opinion on here is largely how you achieve this (with a smattering of xenophobic isolationism, tempered with some bleeding heart liberal snowflake do-gooders).

I would stop short of calling the policy towards immigration insanity over the last 40 years, but I would highlight the fact that this government have systematically defunded and dismantled the very services that were in place to process those wishing to come here. And all this against a background of increased pressure on immigration which has left us ill-equipped to detect and process increasing numbers wishing to come to the UK. THis governments answer has been to consistently push the "hostile environment" narrative against a backdrop of insignificant, performative and eye-wateringly expensive political moves, whilst all the time signalling that it is OK to demonise, criminalise and dehumanise those that are coming here in record numbers as a result of their abject failure to address the underlying problems with any conviction or collaboration.

Lots of finger pointing, very little tangible evidence of any real positive impact.

Which just about sums this government up full stop.

You've lumped me in with somebody who is making separate comments to me, I have shown you the respect not to lump you in with the Marston Road yellow. I would appreciate it if you stop telling me what I think and who my opinions are the same as.

My opinion on immigration has absolutely NOTHING to do with Xenephobia, you are just assuming that. If you knew me, my background and my work, you would know how dead wrong that was. Your subtle implication I am xenephobic isn't only offensive, but dead wrong.

If you want to come to the UK, you must do it legally. If not, you should be sent back, it really is that simple. If you disagree with the governments policy on how to legally become a migrant, vote them out. It's that simple.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

This nations inability to have sensible conversations on immigration without descending into tribal fighting and words like racism and xenephobia being baselessly thrown around is one of the reasons we find ourselves in this mess.

 

[QR]

If you took the time to read threads, you would know me and Mustard disagree on a lot! So your first comment is very strange.

I would be left wing on many issues (drug legalisation, renationalising of trains, cutting tax loopholes) almost too many to name.

Immigration is one topic where I seem to have more of a "right wing" view, because the views of some on the left on it are painfully naive. It wasn't so long ago left and right both strongly believed in the need for international borders.

We should know exactly who is coming here, nobody should slip through without proper checks and endanger the lives of people. One day this ridiculousness in the Channel where people pay criminal gangs will end up killing people. If we did stop any boats from the get go, there would be no incentive to endanger your life to get here, the criminal gangs imply the UK is paved with gold, which I guess compared to the way these people are treated by France it is.

Mass immigration is to the benefit of the wealthy classes, it causes wage suppression which keeps wages low, ideal for rich people. Rich people will also of course live in gated communities and lovely Cotswold villages away from people who live in the milieu of a society which has imported huge amounts of people with different languages and values in a tiny amount of time, leading to little integration and huge societal pressures as well as pressures on local services. And then they will sneer at the people who actually have to live in these places as being "racist."

The situation is wholly ludicrous and our nations policy towards immigration has been little short of insanity for about 40 years.

Where do you get this idea that someone who opposes the batshit crazy (not my words, the words of a Tory minister) Rwanda scheme is pro weak borders???

Have you not read or are deliberately ignoring what the likes of @Sheik djibouti and I have been arguing for on here; ie an approach that has a chance of succeeding in control our borders. The problem is you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between workable solutions and bloody expensive performative, dog whistle, politics. Or you don't care.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Where do you get this idea that someone who opposes the batshit crazy (not my words, the words of a Tory minister) Rwanda scheme is pro weak borders???

Have you not read or are deliberately ignoring what the likes of @Sheik djibouti and I have been arguing for on here; ie an approach that has a chance of succeeding in control our borders. The problem is you don't seem to be able to tell the difference between workable solutions and bloody expensive performative, dog whistle, politics. Or you don't care.

You keep relating my posts to the Rwanda scheme, something I have made no comment on.

A workable situation should have been found to this years ago. The utter insanity is that we still haven't found one. To me, the Rwanda scheme seems like a last ditch desperate attempt from a government out of ideas. Something I think I have said on here before.

If you are in France, you are an economic migrant, in a safe country. If it was down to me, I would send them all back to France, this would lead to no more crossings. However, it seems lawyers and politicians get involved and puts the government in an impossible sitatuation.

I don't believe everyone wants any solution to this madness anyway. I believe (and I know many will disagree, just my opinion) there are some on the fringes of the left who think once these people become naturalised citizens, they will vote Labour and help prevent the Tories from ever gettiing in again by being part of a demographic shift. I believe it's the same reason some Democrats in America don't want a solution to the Mexico border problem.

I know people are going to hate that opinion. But, statistically, migrants are more likely to vote Labour so it does make sense to me they would want to maximise immigration. I'm not asking anyone else to believe it.

 

[QR]

If you are in France, you are an economic migrant, in a safe country. If it was down to me, I would send them all back to France, this would lead to no more crossings. However, it seems lawyers and politicians get involved and puts the government in an impossible sitatuation.

You clear don't understand the difference between an economic migrants and an asylum seeker. The UK WELCOMED c700,000 economic migrants last year.

Get yourself educated and stop conflating the two and people on here might start to consider your arguments a little more seriously.

While your at it take a look at these stats from last night's Newsnight. See where France is?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

You clear don't understand the difference between an economic migrants and an asylum seeker. The UK WELCOMED c700,000 economic migrants last year.

Get yourself educated and stop conflating the two and people on here might start to consider your arguments a little more seriously.

While your at it take a look at these stats from last night's Newsnight. See where France is?

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You are such an arrogant person sometimes "Get yourself educated". I know the difference.

Many on here agree with me and many agree with you. Don't act like your opinion is the one people take seriously because it isn't the case.

 

[QR]

You are such an arrogant person sometimes "Get yourself educated". I know the difference.

Many on here agree with me and many agree with you. Don't act like your opinion is the one people take seriously because it isn't the case.

I'll stop being arrogant when you stop talking crap. Deal?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I'll stop being arrogant when you stop talking crap. Deal?

Is this acceptable behaviour on here? Because it shouldn't be.

 

[QR]

If you are in France, you are an economic migrant

This is crap. Stop posting it and I'll stop calling it out. Deal?

 

[Wandering Yellow]

This is crap. Stop posting it and I'll stop calling it out. Deal?

I was clearly referring to channel migrants and you are being a pedant.

You post naive conspiratorial crap constantly yourself, if I took the time to reply to it I wouldn't earn a living.

Also. I stand by everyone coming from France being an economic migrant anyway. It's a safe country

 

[Essexyellows]

Um……really……. we’re going after whole swathes of people based on their faith now?

Not sure what your real world experience of Muslims ( along with Jews, Christians, Hindus etc) is but that is one hell of a sweeping statement.

I’ll bet you’re not an islamaphobe either….

Sky fairies (all of them) are just used by weak minded people making excuses for poor behaviour based on unfounded stories in old books.

 

[Marston Road yellow]

Sky fairies (all of them) are just used by weak minded people making excuses for poor behaviour based on unfounded stories in old books.

Again you go with sky fairy thing rather than accepting that most countries including ours define themselves as a religious country so as to identify a basis for good and bad governance.

Our king is the head of the national church.

In the same way that people here who have no faith but want to be married in a church say they are Christian’s, I believe most Muslims are Muslim in name only.

But you are not stupid and you know this.

So I have to wonder are you just picking at Muslims because it fits the narrative of immigrants being mostly Muslims, or do you have other reasons?

 

[Mojofilter]

I'll stop being arrogant when you stop talking crap. Deal?

Is this acceptable behaviour on here? Because it shouldn't be.

Maybe you should both shut up whinging at one another and taking juvenile swipes, realise you're not only not going to agree but will also not convince anyone of your arguments here and chill out. You hate one another's standpoints, that's clear and unlikely to change. Please spare us this silly hostility

 

[Marston Road yellow]

You've lumped me in with somebody who is making separate comments to me, I have shown you the respect not to lump you in with the Marston Road yellow. I would appreciate it if you stop telling me what I think and who my opinions are the same as.

My opinion on immigration has absolutely NOTHING to do with Xenephobia, you are just assuming that. If you knew me, my background and my work, you would know how dead wrong that was. Your subtle implication I am xenephobic isn't only offensive, but dead wrong.

If you want to come to the UK, you must do it legally. If not, you should be sent back, it really is that simple. If you disagree with the governments policy on how to legally become a migrant, vote them out. It's that simple.

Honestly not offended……. My wife and kids don’t like being lumped with me either.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

Maybe you should both shut up whinging at one another and taking juvenile swipes, realise you're not only not going to agree but will also not convince anyone of your arguments here and chill out. You hate one another's standpoints, that's clear and unlikely to change. Please spare us this silly hostility

I do apologise for being baited, I just don't like being told to 'educate myself' it's so rude. But you're right, we should always have decorum in how we speak to each other.

The immigration debate seems so toxic in the USA and the UK in a way it doesn't seem to be in many countries around the world. It makes the Israel-Palestine debate seem cordial at times.

Of course, the government needs to show compassion, but it must also be realistic and not naive to the ambitions of many who come here. Where people feel the correct policy on that spectrum is seems to cause immense hatred between the electorate.

 

[Essexyellows]

Again you go with sky fairy thing rather than accepting that most countries including ours define themselves as a religious country so as to identify a basis for good and bad governance.

Our king is the head of the national church.

In the same way that people here who have no faith but want to be married in a church say they are Christian’s, I believe most Muslims are Muslim in name only.

But you are not stupid and you know this.

So I have to wonder are you just picking at Muslims because it fits the narrative of immigrants being mostly Muslims, or do you have other reasons?

My reference to Muslims was in response to another part of the discussion.

Likewise the majority of the arrivals are young, healthy men irrespective of their religion.

Living where I do I may know more about the multiple faiths than most people, and the sub cultures within.

If you think "White, British" make the worst racists you may need to learn a little more about said religions and their hatred of others.

 

[Eric Blair]

I do apologise for being baited, I just don't like being told to 'educate myself' it's so rude. But you're right, we should always have decorum in how we speak to each other.

The immigration debate seems so toxic in the USA and the UK in a way it doesn't seem to be in many countries around the world. It makes the Israel-Palestine debate seem cordial at times.

Of course, the government needs to show compassion, but it must also be realistic and not naive to the ambitions of many who come here. Where people feel the correct policy on that spectrum is seems to cause immense hatred between the electorate.

I imagine there is more agreement than not - strong borders, well resourced and humane immigration policy, maintaining our history of welcoming those genuinely in need, robust on illegal immigration but acknowledging that legal migration benefits us all (NHS, skills, culture). Maybe we get fixated on the smaller points of how to do this rather than agree the principle.

As ever the big issue is the destruction of public services since austerity in 2010 which has contributed to everyone feeling a bit insecure and angry (me included). The broader neo-liberal economy has a lot to answer for (including lack of regulation on social media but that's a whole new thread).

Just call me a pound shop Yoda.

Up the bloody yellows.

 

[QR]

Maybe you should both shut up whinging at one another and taking juvenile swipes, realise you're not only not going to agree but will also not convince anyone of your arguments here and chill out. You hate one another's standpoints, that's clear and unlikely to change. Please spare us this silly hostility

I don't see this as one person's view against another's. I see it as a question of facts against falsehoods. God knows I know politicians are a less than an honest bunch but at least in the past when found out they either apologized or stepped down before external pressure forced then to quit. If there is one thing that irks me the more than any in recent years are the lies and the repeat of lies of politicians for which they're are no consequence. So if someone who doesn't understand the asylum system tells a falsehood I will call them out and I will continue to call them out.

 

[Wandering Yellow]

I don't see this as one person's view against another's. I see it as a question of facts against falsehoods. God knows I know politicians are a less than an honest bunch but at least in the past when found out they either apologized or stepped down before external pressure forced then to quit. If there is one thing that irks me the more than any in recent years are the lies and the repeat of lies of politicians for which they're are no consequence. So if someone who doesn't understand the asylum system tells a falsehood I will call them out and I will continue to call them out.

Honestly mate get a grip. You are so unbelievably arrogant to think you have a monopoly on truth.

You don't.