World Cup 25/11/2022: Group Stage - England v USA: 1900

[chuckbert]

I said the same to my daughter lol

Yup - me and my boy too.

 

[Leysboy]

Whatever.

Cling onto the misty eyed memories of 1990 if you want. I could happily dissect every game from that tournament in the same way you’ve done above to prove Robson was lucky. Curious that Euro ‘84 and Euro ‘88 doesn’t get a mention from you either. Venables was a great man manager but once again just because England did well that tournament and ‘Three Lions’ was fresh and new, England were damn lucky there too - Spain QF anyone?

No manager in my lifetime has got as close as Southgate has to actually winning anything with England. You can question some things about the Euros final but I remember the thread on here for the Germany game where almost every poster said ‘take Kane off’. He scored to send us through. You can just criticise without giving kudos to where he got it right. Watch the second half of extra time against Denmark and England were in control of a game that should have been nerve-wracking. It was superb how well they controlled it.

Go back to the shock-and-awe of Eriksson, divided squads where the Liverpool and Man United players won’t talk to each other and a miserable camp under Capello, the utter farce of Allardyce, the failures of Taylor, Hodgson and McLaren if you want. If you can’t acknowledge that England actually have an approach for a change under Southgate, you’re just letting blind bias get in the way.

I could also dissect each of the games in 1990.

 

[oufc1991]

Football fans are so fickle when your team is winning everything is great but if they don't win everything is not so great I wonder if it's like that in other sports

England were boring last night but if we win every game from now 1-0 people would be buzzing if we win the world cup

 

[m]

So you pick a defensive Italian.

I want a manager who will let our stars express themselves.

Like the Iran game you mean?

 

[m]

You are a spring chicken and England have won a world cup in my lifetime: Ramsey and all that. Ramsey played an 'innovative' 4-4-2 (4-4-22 according to the Daily Mail) and we scraped through with the help of referees and 2 brilliant CBs - Moore and (Jack) Charlton, plus the mysterious genius of playing Hurst instead of Greaves.

Fast forward present: no England manager will win a world cup playing football that mimics the way players played 2 years ago in leagues that play technically better football and aren't based on huff, puff and foreign flair.

Or: Southgate's a functionary not a visionary.

#mediocrelazyandbombasticsince74

Focusing on the first and last line.

Thanks, and you're probably right.

Didn't do Greece or Portugal any harm when the time was right though. I mean Greece, Greece!

 

[m]

Eh, it wasn't so bad - the Americans around me were happy not to have lost, and therefore to still have their fate in their own hands on Tuesday. I could still brazen it out given that the draw means we've basically already qualified courtesy of running up our goal difference against Iran.


And how are people still so misty-eyed about Italia 90?
We scored 7 goals total in 6 games (not including the pointless 3rd placed playoff) and never beat a genuinely good side. Gazza's tears coupled with Nessun Dorma, Lineker's finishing and a solid defense have led many to completely overrate that side.

Southgate's teams aren't exactly 1970 Brazil, but they get better results that any England side in my lifetime.

Come on Tony!

I fully appreciate the logic of your argument, and seem to be generally singing from the same hymn sheet as you re the England team.

But if we can't be misty-eyed about Italia 90 then why are we doing any of this?

 

[OX14]

England were boring last night but if we win every game from now 1-0 people would be buzzing if we win the world cup

Ian Atkins was the master of winning games 1-0 for us and the majority of our fanbase couldn't stand the brand of football on offer. To me football is more than a game where its just the result that matters.

 

[m]

Ian Atkins was the master of winning games 1-0 for us and the majority of our fanbase couldn't stand the brand of football on offer. To me football is more than a game where its just the result that matters.

You'd love this manager called Karl Robinson. Often the top-scoring team, very impressive win ratio.

Not so good at results when it really matters, but who cares about that, eh?

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

I think it’s a fair point to make, that Southgate has been given very favourable knockout games to win.

Columbia, Sweden, Germany, Ukraine, Denmark. Out of them, Germany was the only decent side and they’ve proved themselves to be on a decline ever since. Southgate lost when he faced Croatia and Italy.

I’m pretty sure the England sides from 1998 and 2002 would have bitten your arm off for that kind of calibre of side (and beaten them) rather than being knocked out by Argentina or Brazil… if Southgate can beat a side like that in a knockout game then I’ll give him his dues.

 

[OX14]

You'd love this manager called Karl Robinson. Often the top-scoring team, very impressive win ratio.

Not so good at results when it really matters, but who cares about that, eh?

That isn't the Karl Robinson of this season though lets be fair.

 

[m]

That isn't the Karl Robinson of this season though lets be fair.

Well that's certainly true.

 

[werthersoriginal]

Yeah but he didn’t win one so he’s a failure (isn’t that how the argument goes?)

It just shows that football fans make no sense.

I find it interesting that Southgate is slammed for his dull style despite his success on the pitch, while Robinson is slammed by the same people for his lack of success, ignoring our sparkling attacking play of the last three seasons.

 

[Foley]

Ian Atkins was the master of winning games 1-0 for us and the majority of our fanbase couldn't stand the brand of football on offer. To me football is more than a game where its just the result that matters.

Yes but during Atkins time the football was awful but we were also not successful. We has a second half of the season slump and 'blew" a great position.

 

[Oxford84]

Meh. You don't win any trophies for winning the 2nd group game.

Since the war only Brazil have won a world cup winning every game.

I don't want to see England look really good but win f**k all. Too familiar.

instead youre going to watch them play s**t and win f**k all.

 

[Foley]

It just shows that football fans make no sense.

I find it interesting that Southgate is slammed for his dull style despite his success on the pitch, while Robinson is slammed by the same people for his lack of success, ignoring our sparkling attacking play of the last three seasons.

Ah but it is easy!
Win and be successful AND play exciting attacking football!

 

[Oxford84]

It just shows that football fans make no sense.

I find it interesting that Southgate is slammed for his dull style despite his success on the pitch, while Robinson is slammed by the same people for his lack of success, ignoring our sparkling attacking play of the last three seasons.

i think youll find its only this season most people have been unhappy with when we are not playing attacking football.

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Or, beat a limited USA side who could only draw with Wales, and actually make all five of your allotted subs, and play Phil Foden, one of the best players at Pep Guardiola’s all-conquering Man City side?

But no, any criticism of a manger who only loses when he faces Belgium, Croatia and Italy is CRAZY!

 

[IsleofWightYellow]

Mason Mount: Plays all 90 minutes against the USA, is terrible all game

People: Umm… maybe Phil Foden, that guy who’s been tearing up the PL this season, scoring and assisting, should have come on?

People on here: OH WOW, Southgate can’t do anything right can he, what do you people want, England to win every game 10-0 while playing brilliant football?!?

 

[SteMerritt]

Mason Mount: Plays all 90 minutes against the USA, is terrible all game

People: Umm… maybe Phil Foden, that guy who’s been tearing up the PL this season, scoring and assisting, should have come on?

People on here: OH WOW, Southgate can’t do anything right can he, what do you people want, England to win every game 10-0 while playing brilliant football?!?

 

[m]

instead youre going to watch them play s**t and win f**k all.

Well we'll see.

England have progressed under Southgate as far as I see it. I don't ever remember an England side being particularly 'great' to watch either.